First tow, and she ran hot - who has improved cooling system?

[Jim73]

I was a dealer counterman in a previous life, Ryan. Sometimes mentioning that and being a patient guy gets me 20 off, and occasionally I get cost plus 10. We'll see, I guess. Priced a Motorcraft clutch at a bit over $175.00 online tonight.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

If you are going to get a new fan clutch get the one from MS Tech 800-832-8844 for $220 it's a modified one that is trimmed to come on at a lower temp (210) than the stock and aftermarket ones.

I will see if I can find there website later today.

 

[sassyrel]

as ryan has noted--a lot of aftermarket rads are CHEAP--and theres a reason--having a rad shop for a few years--its amusing when some people bring the vehicle in with a bad rad--and its a cheapy after--can tell by the thickness of the fins--and the thiness of the tubes---as argve has done--the usa core solved his problem--i once made a 5 row unit for my own truck that hada warm 460--ended that cooling problem!!!!!!!! and it could be half plugged--or the block could be full of sludge--not all flushing will clean out all of the nastys--knocking out the back softplug on both sides of the block--and hitting with garden hose will blow nearly all of it out--and ya--ive done this meesy cleaning--but works--after this is done--use new coolant==proper sca additive--and DISTILLED water--no calcium in that--and no more plugged rad down the line--also--might want to put some rad conditioner in there--its soluable oil--and coats the interior system so the block cant rust--

 

[OkieGringo]

I've got a 5-row core in my truck, and I need to keep the RPM up OVER 2800 when towing a 5-er up a long grade. If I let the RPM drop below 2800 the coolant temps goes up FAST. Try it and let me know if yours does the same. OkieG

 

[sle2115]

Jim-

I know that the dealer prices are hard to swallow, but you need to keep in mind that they're easier on your wallet than the tow bill from the middle of nowhere.

I'm a bit biased, as I removed faulty aftermarket parts all the time as part of my job. You'd be surprised at what a little sweet talking will get you at the parts counter though. Just asking might get you the part at wholesale cost, which is usually 20-30% below retail.

GOOD LUCK!
Ryan

Yes, but somebody removed the faulty OEM part to install aftermarket. I have sold both, quality aftermarket is usually as good as or better IMHO, but to each his own. In the garage, we generally used OEM electronics, everything else was aftermarket. Being professional installers, we always filed and received labor claims on aftermarket parts that failed before the warranty ran out, many of which were lifetime, try a labor claim with an OEM!

Personally, I use aftermarket whenever I can. I do have specific brands for specific parts and I will seek out and use those, but then again, I have had a Stant T-stat in my truck for over a year and run lower temps than most others post. I have seen 205 twice, both times towing a 8500 lb track hoe on a 2500 lb trailer. I am NA and stock, other than large exhaust, electric pump and aftermarket w/pump and t-stat. I also use FleetCharge A/F with very good luck. Also, about everytime my truck moves, there is something hooked to it, that is basically all I use it for, so it is still maintaining 190 temps while being worked.

 

[TLBREWER]

Jim

I second what Ryan says about OEM parts. I just bought a clutch slave cylinder at $142 from Ford, when the replacement from Napa, which didn't fit, was only $53. I'm getting to the point that Mel's at where I will only buy parts from Ford. The fan clutch is a perfect case in point. Travis had good luck with the part from MS Tech, but other than that I wouldn't use anything other than a Ford unit. It's pricey at approx $240, but you get what you pay for. Look at it this way. If you do enough business with your local Ford parts counter, you may get that 20-30% discount that Ryan spoke of. I own three IDI trucks so I'm at the parts counter fairly regular. I do enough businees that my parts lady put me in her computer like a company...so I got that $142 slave cylinder for $115. Twice the price of the aftermarket part is a little easier to swallow than almost 3X the price. JMHO.

Tom

 

[towcat]

Around this board I am known for being a towtruck driver, but I too have worked the parts business for the last 15 years and am still consutling with two parts houses. There's one big trend that everyone seems to have missed. the last ten years, OEM's have slowly stopped producing their parts "in house" and have quietly been sourcing their "OEM" parts from the same aftermarket sources that we use. simple case in point. Look at your "OEM" waterpump or feul pump(if you haven't switched to a electric) and on the casting you will find a "A" with a circle around it. That is Airtex's branding mark on their casting. This has been going on for years. Keep in mind not all aftermarket is junk. You will get what you pay for. There is a difference with cheap and good radiators most of the quality difference you will see is reflected in the price. But then again, different people have different buying power. Many of my parts is bought at W/D pricing level and often I will go to two or three different places for one job. Why? certain parts houses are stronger in certain lines than others. Bottom line...do your homework.

 

[sle2115]

Around this board I am known for being a towtruck driver, but I too have worked the parts business for the last 15 years and am still consutling with two parts houses. There's one big trend that everyone seems to have missed. the last ten years, OEM's have slowly stopped producing their parts "in house" and have quietly been sourcing their "OEM" parts from the same aftermarket sources that we use. simple case in point. Look at your "OEM" waterpump or feul pump(if you haven't switched to a electric) and on the casting you will find a "A" with a circle around it. That is Airtex's branding mark on their casting. This has been going on for years. Keep in mind not all aftermarket is junk. You will get what you pay for. There is a difference with cheap and good radiators most of the quality difference you will see is reflected in the price. But then again, different people have different buying power. Many of my parts is bought at W/D pricing level and often I will go to two or three different places for one job. Why? certain parts houses are stronger in certain lines than others. Bottom line...do your homework.

I stated this exact thing before at the "other site" as I too still do some consulting work for the aftermarket parts biz. Personally, I know there are some aftermarket companies that make "OEM" parts but we are not at liberty to disclose such issues - client/customer confidentiality. Everytime I read an "OEM" only post, I kind of laugh quietly because most of the "OEM" is outsourced to the same makers of aftermarket! I think towcat and I are in the same situation, as I said, I have my preferred brands and if it means stopping at 4 or 5 places to get the parts I favor, them that is what I will do. After selling and installing parts for 24 years (wow, I can't believe that long!) I have formed pretty solid opinions about what parts I like. Oxygen sensors for instance seem to be a soft spot of mine where I will go OEM, mainly because the producer of the aftermarket brand I like (consequently the same as some of the OEM products) does not have an outlet locally.

At any rate, there are brands like FelPro and Wix that I prefer to any OEM product. I have sold them, I have seen how they handle problems and I have seen both of their production facilities and believe me, they do more R&D than you can imagine. Once OEM parts are in place, most R&D on that particular part stops unless there is a problem that will result in recalls etc. FelPro on the other hand is constantly striving to make a better product. Case in hand, how much R&D do you think Ford is doing on IDI stuff? They would rather your truck die and they sell you a new one than make a better part. OK, off the soap box, glad towcat agrees and pointed out the other aspect here as well.

 

[Agnem]

That may be true with certain parts, but there is still a quality difference in a lot of stuff that I can see and feel. Sure, Ford doesn't make oil filters. We've known that all along, and I'm sure a ton of other parts they don't make too. BUT, I DO believe that what they get from their sources is better in a lot of ways and from a business sense, it is logical. No doubt there are quality agreements with their suppliers that have to be met. Ford dealers are still servicing these trucks (even if they don't know what they are doing in a lot of cases, and maybe don't even like working on them), and Ford service still comes with a warranty, so if the parts are crappy, it costs everybody in the end, so there is a much higher standard of quality. Case in point - a water pump. Since Towcat specifically mentioned it, so will I. When I did a water pump for Landscapeman, he bought a NAPA Gold pump, and I got a Motorcraft one. The Napa part was like $40 and was their best one. The Ford pump was at least twice that much, but with my discount was around $60. We set the two side by side, and examined them. The Ford pump had a cleaner casting, and the bolt hole shoulders were machined, so that the bolt would sit square over the hole and tighten evenly. On the inside, the Ford pump had an impeller that was pressed fully onto the shaft. The end of the shaft was even with the outer surface of the impeller. The Napa pump on the other hand, did not have a machined casting, there was casting flash, and the impeller looked like it might fall off at any given moment. Even Charlie insisted that we use the Ford pump, even though he knew it would mean going to the effort of returning the Napa one, and paying more. This is a simple example of why I only buy Ford parts. You guys in the parts business, can buy what you want, and save lots of money, while I, in my blissfull ignorance, will continue to trust Ford until I can't get their stuff anymore (which is happening more and more... the latest victim, certain V belts for 6.9's), and when Ford is gone, I'll be able to sleep with a clear concious knowing I did what I could to keep them afloat.

 

[Jim73]

Hey, I note that the killer rad from Heatex that solved Travis' issues was not a 5-row core but a 4-row. Baja (oops, OKIE) says he needs to keep revs up to cool with his 5-row. At some point looks to me like adding rows gets you into diminishing returns unless you can increase airflow to take advantage. Okie, do you think it's moving more coolant or moving more air that's keeping you cool at elevated RPMs?

The Heatex unit Travis used on NCC-1701 had a higher fin count and maybe that's the key - obviously that is the sort of cost tradeoff where the OEM might be tempted forego the high fin count (maybe even for non-cost reasons - maybe higher fin count units are more prone to blockage problems and average owners might not pay attention to bugs,leaves, etc.) and sort of band-aid the system with a large clutch fan.

While I appreciate the advantages of crossflow aluminum radiators (not to mention the fact that a PSD unit would obviously be sized for the right kind of duty cycle I'll see), I think I'm going to go with the Heatex custom core since it worked for Travis and it'll be a drop-in. Don't think I want to deal with modifying the filler and so forth on a PSD radiator.

Also, I'll call MS Tech about their fan clutches!

Will let you guys know how it all works as soon as it is together. Also thinking about some mods to close the gap between the molded shroud and the radiator - don't know about you guys, but on mine, the gaps are pretty big. Can't be good for fan efficiency!

Jim

 

[argve]

I'll comment on the 4 core vs 5 core rad... I learned this from talking with the local rad shop when fighting the overheating issues because I asked for a 5 row... My rad shop did not want to put in a 5 row because the air flow thru a 5 core is less than that of a 4 row (less rows to go around) he said that with the increased fin count that it would diminish the air flow but not as much as the 5 core I requested.

I never had to keep the revs up with my combo - in fact it cooled better with lower revs (allowed the coolant to stay longer in the rad to transfer more heat) vs having to keep the revs up so that the fan clutch could pull more air (again with the amount of air through the rad fins).

Not knocking the 5 row or saying those that have it made a bad choice but just stating what my findings were and then comparing them to what the boys with the 5 row have posted.

 

[argve]

Also my rad guy told me that if by chance that the Heatex did not take care of the problem that he was going to put me into a 2 row alum rad with the rows being 1-1/2" (each) He stated that the larger diameter core also bought more tube to fin contact which would transfer more heat to the fins which then because of the fact of only 2 rows that the air flow at that point would be out of sight so heat would be shed like nothing before.

But again the 4 row I had did the trick - I could not overheat the truck no matter how hard I tried and trust me I tried because I wanted to prove my rad guy wrong because he would not sell me what I asked for - Live and learn huh....

 

[towcat]

Also my rad guy told me that if by chance that the Heatex did not take care of the problem that he was going to put me into a 2 row alum rad with the rows being 1-1/2" (each) He stated that the larger diameter core also bought more tube to fin contact which would transfer more heat to the fins which then because of the fact of only 2 rows that the air flow at that point would be out of sight so heat would be shed like nothing before.

But again the 4 row I had did the trick - I could not overheat the truck no matter how hard I tried and trust me I tried because I wanted to prove my rad guy wrong because he would not sell me what I asked for - Live and learn huh....

I can give a big +1 to the aluminum radiators. I've put them in every big block gasser and solved overheat issues every time. Extremely pricey but worth every penny for the peace of mind.

 

[icanfixall]

So, I ask you guys this. "what is the fin count on the oem and your new 4 core dimple radiator?". I have the first custom 5 row on this or the "other" site. I too was told it may not cool very well in traffic because its about 25% wider than oem. Thats not a problem. If anything it cools way too fast. Just letting off the peddle getting off a freeway it will drop temp almost as fast as the pyro. I run the oem thermostat and the MS tech modoified fan clutch. I pull heavy and fast so temps are likely to run up sometimes but things are really under control. I bought my rad from Harry & Sons located in Rosemead Ca. Its not too far from Valencia and if help is needed on fan clutch tooling Just Email me. I retired AGAIN tomorrow but for goods this time. Its kinda funny being 54 with some money and nothing to do. But wait, I'll rebuild my spare 7.3 motor in the shade.... Just looking for something to do now with all this newfound time on my hands. I was thinking of flying to the Chatty meet and renting a Caddy for the drive but thats not going to happen cause the wife is off to Europe and I get to take care of the horses.....

 

[Jim73]

Thank you, sir!

icanfixall, I might have to take you up on that offer on the fan clutch tool! Never pulled the fan, was thinking of building a holding tool - but I don't have access to a decent shop or more than very crude fab capability.

Waiting on the guys down south (San Diego way) who are the closest shop that Heatex does business with to get back to me with price and delivery time, but might have to look at Harry & Sons if the shop down south don't show a little more interest in taking my money. Had a chance to get a new Motorcraft fan clutch for free from a buddy of mine who used to be in the Ford parts business (owed me a favor), and money considerations made me drop the MS Tech idea. (things are a little tight right now - I make most of my money during the school year!) Hopefully with the new rad it'll cool OK with the stock clutch start temperature.

Anybody have a good source for thermostat housings? Haven't gotten that far into it yet, but I might as well get as close as possible to "zero-timing" the cooling system as long as I'm going to be in that far. Heard from several guys that their housings were pretty corroded when they went in to do a waterpump job.

Jim